Memories of Braunstone – Jack Lippitt
Transcription of Interview with Jack Lippitt on May 25th, 2004
Please can you tell me your name and when and where you were born?
My name is Jack Lippitt I was born in Leicester in 1930
Jack, tell me when did you come to live in Braunstone?
1939/40 So early years of the war…
Yes
…and you were a young lad
That’s right
What was it like then?
Very quiet, very old fashioned round Braunstone. Round the church was allotments, er field in front of the church, proper village countryside. Where I live now there was a farm, all farms at the back, there was a farm on the, at the top of Braunstone Lane going from the church on the left hand side and we had all the cows and that at the back of them back of the houses. And people used to feed them, I remember one lady she was a very lover of animals and because they got the, the flies in the eyes she went a floor cloth and wiped the houses, wiped its eyes!
Yes. So how different was this from where you lived before in the centre of Leicester?
Very different because it was, it was quiet. In the town there was a lot of activities going on near the market and all that sort of thing, very nice in the town and that. And Sunday nights we er, my mother and father at 8-0-clock at night always used to take me up the town to see the Salvation Army going round the clock tower
Oh, that was before you moved?
Yes before I moved to Braunstone
Yes
Yes it was a recognised thing for the Salvation Army to come from Kildare Street and the Sally’s going walking up all round the clock tower
Yes, with the band playing?
Yes the band was playing
So tell me about your family and your first neighbours here
The neighbours was er, came up about 12 months before we did. The house was new because it was the last slot to be built before the war along Crescent and Lady Johnson at the farm on Braunstone Lane as I’ve just mentioned, she would only allow one row of houses to be built along Cort Crescent
Why was that?
Well she didn’t want the view spoiling from the park
Ah
You see because the farm overlooked the park and then they built these houses along the Cort Crescent and that’s why she only gave one permission to be built and nothing else was to be built at the back of the church nor in the front because the park was owned by, one time of day was owned by Winstanley
Yes, but the council had bought it from the Winstanleys in the 20’s hadn’t they?
That’s right, yes, yes in the 20’s. So they can’t build on the park and they can’t build at the back of the church there, the church field
Yes
There was some cottages in the Cressida Place which was er sort of got a bit derelict. And the vicar at that time was called Callum Green he sort of got cracking on them and had the houses all renovated
Right but you’re jumping ahead a bit aren’t you because wasn’t Callum Green in the 70’s?
Yes but this is when these were derelict before, before he came
Right
And they wanted to pull them down and so he sort of er said “You’re not we’ll have them done up”
Yes
And he put a preservation order on them
And that’s when the conservation area started isn’t it, in the 70’s
Yes, yes in the 70’s
Right. Let’s go back to when you arrived in Braunstone as 9 year old at the beginning of the war, how did you get into town?
We got into town on the bus
From Braunstone?
Yes
Oh right
Yes we went into town on the bus, and the number of the bus was number 37
Right, yes
We used to go into town on the bus and then back again
Yes. The houses, were they all the same or did they vary?
They varied, some of the houses on north Braunstone was 4 bed roomed houses they was for bigger families. Where I am is only 3 bed roomed houses
So this is the house you moved to in 1939 was it?
…39 yes, 40 yes. We had to come out of the house where we was because of road widening which is Vaughn Way now and so before the war this is why we had to come out but the war came and stopped it so it er, so the road widening never got done till after the, finished after the war
Yes. Do you know anything about the rules and regulations when the estate was new, when your parents first came?
No, no
Your family, was it just your mum and dad and you?
Yes
Right. What can you tell me about your schooling?
Well when I was, lived in the town I was brought up at All Saints church and er…
That’s Highcross Street?
Yes, I went to All Saints day school till I moved to Braunstone. And then I went to Caldecote Road School for a short time and then finished up at Ellesmere Road School
Right
So all through my life I just went to 3 schools, but All Saints that’s where I was brought up. So I’ve been to all the churches round there I went to all of them St. Mary’s de Castro, St. Margaret’s, never went to St. Nicholas because, I don’t know for why but when I was, I was er about 12 months ago I had the chance to have a look round St. Nicholas and I couldn’t believe it what a lovely church it was and I’d lived round there all those years, bred and born round there and it’s the only church that I hadn’t been in!
Yes. Can you tell me anything about Caldecote or Ellesmere, what were they like?
Well they was, I was only there for a short time because I left Ellesmere Road School at the age of 13
Right
So I, but I enjoyed the 2 schools the short period I was there but All Saints was the main one that I enjoyed
Yes. Now can you tell me about life during the war?
Yes I can tell you a little bit about when we had the air raids. They was er, a land mine dropped at the top of Cort Crescent, opened the road up fro 3, you could get 3 buses in
Goodness
And then there was a land mine dropped at Kirby Muxloe, I don’t know much about that but Braunstone was, when it dropped the land mine in the road there were some houses damaged round Webster Road round there. We went to have a look and that and we saw part of the houses down and the bath hanging out! And, so that was during the air raids but when the sirens used to go we used to have to get out and go up to the nearest shelter and the shelter was where the police station stands on now
Right
So we was down there, we’d just about get up there and get settled in the air raid shelter when the all clear went so we all came back again
So how often did that happen?
Oh quite a few times
I mean was it sort of every week or…?
Well er it happened 2 or 3 times a week
Really?
Yes but em…
But was that for just a year or 2 or was it for the whole war?
It was for the whole of the war and, but then it sort of died down when D Day come
Yes, yes. I heard there were a lot of American soldiers around here?
Yes there was American soldiers on the park, on the Gooding Avenue side, there was all huts built for them. And the Americans was very good, they er, I think they’ve got a memorial of them on the park. And all the, when they put the, the Americans came out, when the Americans came out the council took them over and they used them as, the squatters went in!
Oh!
Squatters went in the huts you see and I think that’s when the council took over and then it was called the, we used to call it the camp when I was on the council. And one of the family just lives down the road from me was one of the squatters and she, when they come out she got a house down the Court Road she’d got about 7 children
Yes, when you say squatter were they made homeless by the bombing?
I don’t know I can’t tell you that one
No, can you tell me about the blackout because I imagine there was a black out?
Oh yes the blackout, we used to have to be, have all the windows blackened out and the A.R.P wardens come round and er if he, he’d be walking round and if he seen the light showing he’d come and rap on your door and tell you…! We had shutters made for our windows we fitted inside so everywhere was blacked out, even cars had to have shields on the head lights so they could, just slits in so they could just see where they was going
Yes, but it must have been a bit tricky coming home at night in the pitch dark
Oh yes, yes it was yes
How did you manage?
Oh we managed we had to do in them days, in the war days. Anyway we managed to get home and that, the buses was running and some of the windows was blackened out but we used to have to keep the lights very dim so the enemy wouldn’t see where they was coming
Yes. Is there anything else you can tell me about those years? Especially something that might not be in the history books, I mean people talk about a black market do you know anything about that?
No I don’t know anything about the black market, no; no I cannot tell you anything about that
Where did people work?
Oh they worked in factories, hosiery, boot and shoes; oh there was quite a few factories around in the town where they did all the hosiery because it was an hosiery city
Yes, yes
And a shoe city as well
What about round Braunstone because there were a few factories round the edge weren’t there?
Er yes but not so much you see, Braunstone was anew area at that time and it was just being, just being built so they all had to get into town you see, all the factories were down the town. There was factories where I lived in the town
And when you left school did you go straight to work?
Yes got a job straight a way and as I said I left when I was 13 but I couldn’t start working till I was 14
Right
And I went to work for Western and Pilling, plumbers merchants in Waterloo Street, but the plumber that used to work for them, he’d started a business on his own so I went to work with him but I was recommended by Western and Pilling and I served my time as a plumber, mind you I don’t do any plumbing now! And I had 7 or 8 years for, in the plumbing then the fella that I was with, it was only one man business just me and him. I’ve worked all down the west end of Leicester which is the bottom end of Hinckley Road and Norfolk Street and all that and em, and I left there because he hadn’t got, he was almost retiring so I went and got a job on the city council and I done 35 years on the council. I done a bit of everything on there, you had to do it in those days, I done a bit of plumbing, carpentry, brick laying…
Really?
Yes and then it was a job coming up and I went as a lorry driver, it was a lorry drivers job came up so I went as a lorry driver and that’s when I finished all my time as a lorry driver so all told I was on the council for 35 years
Yes so it’s quite something
So all told I’ve only had 2 jobs in my life since I left school
What as working for…
Working for a plumber…
Yes and then working for the city council
…then working for the city council, not many can say that these days
No, no that’s right. Now after the war what changes happened on this estate?
Well there was er, not a lot of changes. They started re-housing people from the city centre and bringing them up to Braunstone. And em because you see all down the city there was all houses round the old Wharf Street area and 2 up and 1 down as they called them and they brought them up and re-housed them up at (inaudible) because they wanted to get everybody out of the city and, so that’s what they did. Now they’re building houses now to take them back into the city!
Yes, yes. You described where you went to work where did you go for an evening out?
Well we made our own enjoyment, going out; we used to go to the football matches and all that sort of thing. There was no clubs or anything in those days where you can, you go out I mean the pubs and all that used to be closed at 11-0-clock at night
Right, and how as Braunstone changed since then?
Er well it has, it has changed because there’s not much of the old village left now
No – the old village included the farms?
Yes
Yes and the farm that you described as being on the left is that where Herle Avenue is now?
That’s it yes, that’s all houses and where the Shakespeare is that used to be a farm
Did it?
That used to be called Ashley Farm, but I’ve been there for my mother to get some plums because they used to sell the plums there at Ashley, Ashley Farm but we…
I do wonder if the Shakespeare had been a barn or something…
No …it’s a very old building isn’t it?
Yes, it was the farmhouse
Oh was it?
Yes and then it, after the farmhouse in er…
Keep talking to the tape
…in er we had a curate came to Braunstone and he went and lived in the, in there
In the Shakespeare?
In the Shakespeare
Oh right
And his first daughter was born there Elizabeth, his name was the Reverend Chesterman
Right
And he was the curate and he lived in the farmhouse
And this was just after the war?
Yes, yes it would be, when he first came to Braunstone he wasn’t married, he lived at, on Hallam Crescent and then he, I don’t know what happened there but he went in lodgings on Braunstone Lane for a time and then he got married and went in to, and lived into the Shakespeare. He made it quite nice, as I say his first daughter was married there
Was born there
Was born there yes
Tell me about the shops in the early days
Shops?
Yes what shops were there around Braunstone?
The old village shop that we’ve got now that was the only one as I can remember
And in the new estate?
Yes in the new estate there were some on Raven Road, Wellinger Way, Heford Road and there was a pub on Heford Road called the Shoulder of Mutton
Yes
I believe, well that’s demolished now, and I believe that is where the RSPCA er…
Do you know anything about that?
No I don’t know, no, so that was all done after I’d left the council. But there shops across the road from it on the corner of Avery Hill?
Yes
Both sides of Avery Hill (Inaudible) Road?
Yes
And there was garages at the back
Right
…where people could go and you know put their cars and all that but all that’s, well I presume it’s all demolished now the garages because they demolished those while I was on the council. But the pub was at the top there called the Shoulder of Mutton but as I say the RSPCA’s there now Yes. Now lets move on to St. Peters, St Peters church is the oldest building in Braunstone, what part has it played in your life? Quite a bit! When you first went there you’d been used to All Saints, Highcross Street… Yes Did you go immediately to St. Peters with your parents? No we used to travel down to All Saints when we first come up here, then the vicar down at All Saints he said, “Well you’re in the parish of Braunstone” he said, “Why don’t you go to Braunstone?” So we said “Well we’ll give it a try and see but if we don’t like it we’ll come back to All Saints.” But anyway we settled in at Braunstone and the fella that got us this house he was a rent collector on the city council and he knew what he was doing and when he got us to Braunstone he was a church warden and treasurer at the church
Oh
Yes and em so he, he booked us in and they wanted, well they’d already got a verger there she lived in the school house and she came up and so of course the vicar came round to see mother which was the Reverend John Hollingshead at the time and said “We’d like you to be the verger at Braunstone,” “Oh I don’t know” she said, “I haven’t done anything like that before, what do you do?” “Well there’s not a lot to do” he said “Just come to the services and a bit of dusting!” Anyway so she said “Well I’ll give it 6 months trial” so he set her on and she finished up doing 30 years! So em and of course Father was the assistant to her and so she quite enjoyed it, we had some laughs in us time there. And I used to pop in as well and give him and hand because in them days she used to do all the cleaning you see. And then Father died in 1954
It was quite early
Yes, he died and Mother was still the verger and so they roped me in to be her assistant. So I carried on helping her and that and I’ve been on my own 31 years now as a verger and I looked after Crispin’s and all
Oh right
Oh yes I was a verger up there as well when they had the new church I started well I mean I used to go up there, but you see when they first started St Crispin’s there was me, my Mother and Father we used to have evensong here at, this was all during the war, we used to have evensong at Peters and then we’d walk up to Crispin’s and have the service there
In the evening?
In the evening. There was a service in the morning, a communion service and they had that in the Ravenhurst Road School before they got the church built. And it was the same with Barnabas we used to go alternate Sundays, used to go to Barnabas and that was in Bendbow Rise school for a start off before they built that, and they built them both on the same principle as each other, Crispin’s and Barnabas Yes One was dedicated one Sunday and Barnabas was the other
Right
We used to walk over there
Presumably you couldn’t have been verger at two services happening at the same time?
Well when Crispin’s had the new church that’s when I was, took my turn at being verger up there so I used to do alternate Sundays, one at Peters and one at Crispin
Yes
If there were anything special on at Peters well then I used to come down and Crispin’s used to have to float on their own
Yes. Now you said you had some laughs?
Yes
Tell us a few of the stories
Well we, we used to get up, when we at (inaudible) and the lads and me (inaudible) having the service at night time some of the mothers used to bring the children and that and of course tried to keep them quite and that. They, one of the ladies as went, it was the vicar’s wife that’s right, she, she got her keys out for the, dangling her keys at the side to keep the children quite and that! And the vicar said “Here’s me trying to preach a sermon” he said “and you’re giving them keys to dangle!” Yes it’s been quite er, it’s been quite interesting and all that and in Mother’s time you see we had the burglars in the church. And going across the, one night we went in and the, Mother went round to lock, see that everything was alright and she went in the church, the collection box was ripped off the pew at the end. So she went in the vestry and there was a box in there, “I’ll have that there’s money in there” “We’ve had the burglars in the church.” So he said, “I’ll be over.” Well he came across, came out the old school came across the field and there was a fella walking across the field, he said “Good evening” and he was the one who’d been in and robbed the church! And he said to Mother “Goodness me Lucy” he said “He was in here all the while you were in here and he was crouched underneath one of the pews at the back”
Good grief
Course she’s come out you see and locked the door, locked him in but he’d let himself out through the little chapel door and we never did find out who it was No But that was er that was a laugh that was
Now you’ve showed me some photos of Rogation Sunday, can you describe what you did then? This is just after the war
Yes well we, Rogation Sunday we went all, we went up the church Sunday afternoon watching the clouds in the sky that there was no rain coming and then we, the farmer which was George Stroger at the time
George?
Stroger
Stroger, right, can you spell that for me?
No I can’t!
No alright never mind
And, probably got his name somewhere, he had his tractor out and the trailer and we had the organ on the back and here’s me holding on to grim death while the organist is playing (inaudible)! and then we, we went all up the farm and the vicar blessed the crops and then we sang some hymns, then we moved on and we come out onto top of Evelyn Avenue and Avon Road, put the organ in the middle of the road. And we had another stop there and got to em, played some more, sang some more hymns. And then we processed all the way down the Braunstone Lane with the organ at the back and a police escort…
Oh right
…and right back to the church again Oh right We went all in the fields at the back and then moved round to the back, and then went back to the church and then up to the farm again and then read the final service in the farmyard, and then we all processed back to the church, that was on Rogation Sunday yes, done that every year
So you didn’t go all the way round the parish?
No, no
Just round the farms and the church
Just round the farms and the edge of the church, yes
Yes, and how many people would be part of that?
Oh quite a lot, there were Sunday school children as well we had a good Sunday school then you see, I mean it used to be full Sunday afternoons with children
Yes, there was quite a big choir wasn’t there?
Yes, yes, well you see we had an organist Ernie Withers, he was the, his heart and sole was in the choir and he used to go round to the day schools and get them to join the choir
Right
Yes very good man like that and of course when he passed on well nobody could keep it on long, he wasn’t married you see and he was a bachelor and all that retired so he could put the full time into it
Now tell me about Hay Sunday because it sounds really strange
Yes well Hay Sunday is an old custom. Em the Lord of the manor…
The Lord of the manor in Braunstone?
No Aylestone
Of Aylestone? Mm
She, his daughter got lost and they, I forget who, who found her but took her safely back and the Lord of the manor of Aylestone and he left, he said “Well they’ve been, you know so kind to find his daughter because she got lost and er so he left a legacy of hay to be cut on his meadow, to be strewn in Braunstone church at that time in appreciation for his, for finding his daughter. And it was to be brought to the church door and then the verger would strew the aisles with hay, 30 shillings in them times
Oh right
And the money always came from the gas works
Eh?
The money came from the gas works for the verger
Oh I see the gas works had sort of acquired the manor of Aylestone had it?
Yes, yes because they built on the meadow you see the gas works and the legacy comes from the gas works to the verger, nobody else only the verger. But weather it still does now I don’t know
No, well we certainly don’t have hay all over the aisles!
No, no well we stopped that in the 1970’s because people was getting hay-fever and because there was no hay around Braunstone the church warden then had to go and get some from a farm and it was costing too much. So we disposed of it but what’s happened to the legacy I don’t know. But we still had the legacy but I, when I became verger I used to do it and I got the 30 shillings but when it was disposed of they still carried the 30 shillings in and I said “Well I don’t do it anymore I’ll put it into church funds.” Now whether it still comes from there or not I don’t know
Can you tell me how things have changed in St. Peters from 1940, 1941 to now?
Yes when we first, when we first went there the extension was put on. There was no seats in there at all only just a couple of (inaudible), slabbed, yes all slabbed I think. Well then the vicar used to have to preach through an archway and people sat in the (inaudible) and the congregation got quite big so we had to do something about it. So we turned the church round and we got, made the original alter is now, the lady chapel because all the choir stalls was in there and then we worked hard we all took a share and turned the church round. St Luke’s in the town down Humberstone Road was closing being made redundant so we had all the pews from St. Lukes put in the bottom part
Yes in the extension?
In the extension part. The, we had all that we had quite a bit from St. Lukes, the brass lectern came from there
Oh right
As black as the ace of spades it was and it’s all in sections so we, we took it all to bits it went out to the vicarage, because they had a copper in them times, a brick copper in the vicarage so we put it all there and boiled it up and got it all clean, got the blooming thing stuck in the copper! And oh we had some laughs over that, we got it all out and cleaned it up and we worked on it and got it up as it is now all in the brass. And it’s on the, a long pole goes right through and fitted it up see and it’s all in sections, and (inaudible) got it all over and cleaned it all up and that’s how it is now
Yes
So that was another thing came from St. Luke’s. The cross and candlesticks, I don’t know weather you’ve seen this one or not but it’s got stones in, it was on. I think it was in the draw it’s broke, that came out of the yeomanry at the cathedral
Oh yes, oh yes, the photograph there
And the candlesticks, well the cross was on like 3 bases and the candlesticks was on 3 bases so it made it too high for the alter so one of the fellas that used to be (inaudible) at the church he worked at (inaudible) foundry near the Abbey Park so he took it and had it cut down and just had these bases put on the, on it’s own so it’s just the one base. But we had that on the high alter, I think that that alter came from the cathedral as well because they had a new setting in there but we altered it so it all faced one way, the alter is in front of the Queen Anne porch with a nice long red curtain across and we started with that for a start off (inaudible) and then we extended right across and made it very nice. And our late organist made the choir stalls…
Oh really?
…because he was a carpenter and joiner. And there was 3 of them and they made the choir stalls so we could have the choir there you see, we used the other choir stalls what was at em, these were the boys stalls but the other were the men’s stalls sat at the back, so we put them at the back and there was a lot (inaudible)
And em…
And these 3 men made the pews as well
Oh right along with the ones that had come from Humberstone?
Yes, yes
Now there were quite a few vicars, there’s been quite a few vicars in your time haven’t there?
Oh yes
There was the Reverend Hollingshead you said during the war…
Yes well (Inaudible) when we first came, he was the first vicar, he, I knew him and, we knew him and that but he left soon after we come. So there was Hollingshead er Gibb…
Yes
…Alexander, there’s been that many I’m having to think you see
There was Newbon wasn’t there but that’s later
Oh that’s later yes
Alexander was in the 50’s I think you said
Yes Alexander was in the 50’s, er there was, I’m just trying to think who followed Alexander
How long was he here for?
About 8 years
Right, when did Ken Newbon…
Wait a minute er Bill Matthews!
Ah
Bill Matthews – Bill Matthews then er Newbon
And then it must have been Alan Green wasn’t it?
No Alan Green was before, soon after Matthews…that’s right
He was before Ken Newman
Yes, yes, yes and then came Newbon, then Michael…
Yes Michael Woods
Yes, then Rajinda
Yes
I’ve got a book somewhere with them all in
We’ll look for that after the interview. Is there anything else that you want to tell me about St. Peters church? About it’s history, things that have happened?
I think I told you about St Peter’s being a chapel of Glenfield
Oh that’s going way back isn’t it, into the middle ages?
Yes that was a chapel that’s why it was called, it’s dedicated to St. John the Baptist
Really, oh!
But with it being a chapel to St. Peters, Glenfield they named it St. Peters, Braunstone but it is dedicated to St. John the Baptist but I’ve never seen it with just a chapel. Somebody said to me only the other week “Did it have a tower to it higher than what it is?” I said “Well not as I know of…”
No, but I gather that the, the tower was burnt or something wasn’t it (both speak)?
Yes that was burnt in 1974 I can tell you that now
Oh yes goodness
Now that couple was married at the church and I went to the Airmen’s Rest up on Ratby Lane and they came out and quite late at night, and they came down the lane and she said to … “There’s a fire in the church!” So he said,”Don’t be daft.” And she said “I’ll tell you there is” she said, “I can see it”, course he was driving the car so he I mean he had to look where he was going. So he said “Well just for curiosity we’ll go round” and that’s what there was, there was a fire
Yes so they were the ones who called the fire brigade?
Yes and they phoned the fire brigade, I got fetched out at 2-o’clock in the morning
Yes?
And it done more damage. If it hadn’t had been for them the whole lot would have gone, there wouldn’t have been no church there now, so we’ve got them to thank for and er then oh yes there quite a difference. and the organ (inaudible) had just been put in and it had to be all stripped down again and sent away to Walkers because it had got the water in, couldn’t do nothing about it you see I mean there it is there, ripping it all out, all the parts and all the whole lot had to come down
Yes
You see and then all the roof had gone, all the bells come down and that collapsed in the church, there were 3 bells, Nik, Nak and Pru! It’s what they were called, Nik, Nak and Pru and they went away to be re-cast at Taylors at Loughborough because that’s the only bell people there are. And they came back and (inaudible) it done us a good turn really because the bells was on wooden beams and they was rotten so they took all them down and put us steel…
Ah so it’s really stronger now?
Oh it’s stronger now and there’s room for another bell to go in
Is there? Mm
Yes, and then the other part was that the weathervane went because that was (inaudible). So the apprentices of Jones and Shipmans on Narborough road made us a new weather vane and that’s, hang on where they’re putting the bells up, I thought there was a picture – ah here it is – there they are the steeplejack erecting it (inaudible) the top
That’s a very distinctive shape isn’t it?
Oh yes it is yes, the apprentices at Jones and Shipmans made that free for us
Oh that’s nice
But Jones and Shipman are not there now
No what did they make apart from weathervanes?
It’s an engineering firm, they were called Lockie during the war, it was all the ammunition during the war, you see and then – you don’t know Maurice Webster do you?
Do I know…?
Maurice Webster
I’ve heard of him
He’s up at Crispin’s
I probably know him
Yes well he used to be, he used to work there he was a draughtsman in the offices there, he worked at Jones and Shipmans – there they are taking all the organ out again it had just been put in and dedicated
Yes, now is there anything else that you’d like to tell me that you think is important about Braunstone at all?
No I don’t think there is I think I’ve told you all what I sort of know at the moment
We’re coming to the end now, what have you got out of telling me about life in Braunstone?
Quite a lot, it’s quite interesting to talk about these things what you can remember of them
It’s certainly been very interesting for me, how do you think it’s going to help the Braunstone Local History Project?
Oh I think it’ll do them good to know what Braunstone was like years ago, because the present people I mean they don’t know, they’ve got no idea of what it was like or what the area was like you see. I mean the youngsters will probably you know…book somewhere
Yes, thank you very, very much indeed
Yes – let me go and find this other book…
End of Interview